Another simple, practical, easy to understand experiment. If you asked these commentators how to design these experiments before you did them, you would get 50 different answers I gather. You made a LODO beer, you made a regular beer, you shared the results. Well done.
Thanks guys. Awesome experiment, and more are required. And why not use your Helles kit, it was my first ever Lager, and Im loving it. I have brewed LODO twice now finished my second one this morning. I just dough in, stir the grains gently via gravity, and then mash. Plugging my numbers into Beersmith, my mash efficiency today was Great work Jake.
I gather that LODO is overall not the silver bullet it has been made out to be — or it is just too troublesome for an average brewer to execute properly. I still find this fascinating and look forward to more LODO experiments in the future.
Pretty late to the party on this one, but if you guys decide to try a similar xBmt again I would love to see the process done exactly the same way for both batches both LODO with oxygen added back to one batch at various points in the process. This should eliminate variables such as the original gravities differing, which likely has to be compensated for when brewing LODO vs traditional. Hi guys, interesting result. Anyway, the moral of the story is that I believe the best approach to LODO is a combination of a few methods.
Putting all of your eggs in the SMBS basket has some side-effects which you appear to have felt the brunt of — yet that was the advice in the original paper. You guys do great work! Keep it up. If would be interesting to see how significant the results would be if they were both mashed for 90 minutes.
I am currently doing a project on DO at a brewery, and we are investigating the amount of oxygen throughout the process. Would it be possible to know the actual method you use for sampling?
The main problem seems to be the uptake of oxygen by the sample, that gives a very high number even on an end fermented beer, before transferring, even though it should be 0 ppm straight.
I am assuming the error comes from the sampling method itself, so it would be great to know how other people sample. Not sure if you have thought about doing a hochkurz mash setup along with the LODO and it could potentially change the outcome. The guy who has been talking to me about LODO from his pictures, he is doing something right as he is able to get that amazing German head that I have not been able to replicate in any form so far just do a normal type brew.
I mean I get a good head, but it dissipates instead of like a german beer that just sits there and is incredible. This was an awesome xbrmt. I have been reading up on this process and so far I am not convinced. Sodium Metabisulfite is not something I would ever want to add to my water. I think there is another possibility that you only briefly touched upon. It is created by careful brewing process. German brews taste German because they are brewed carefully by German brewers.
Much like the drop of olive oil craze…of years gone by. B but they have unwittingly identified somethings that really do matter careful attention to process, and low oxygen packaging. Spunding beers for natural carbonation in a low oxygen environment has certainly been a benefit to all brewers.
And attention to process is with out a doubt the single most beneficial outcome of the lodo craze. So… for me… Ill take away from this the idea that careful process is a good thing. But worrying about oxygen ingress before the boil is not necessary.
Worrying about oxygen after fermentation is absolutely a good idea. Since then, it has helped educate most pro-brewers in the world. Hard to believe that Kunze and the pro brewers and brewing scientists that helped compile the information in the book included fads in it. Sorry for the late response but i had to collect some information from the father land.
No doubt it has been important to the education of many brewers and brewing scientists. I have reached out to several friends in Germany who are involved in brewing professionally.
I asked for their input on this issue. So far One has responded. He has assured me that… At his brewery, which i will not be naming at his request, they do take steps to limit oxygen at all points in the brewing process. But that they do not add any additional chemicals. They use city water and acid malt.
Basically Its all just process. They begin by degassing the water with a column degasser that forces water down and nitrogen gas up. He also recommended that we use local fresher malts and hops. Indicating that they will not use aged malts. His feeling on head retention for home brewing was protein rest and spunding.
Create medium length proteins and glycerine. As more respond I will share more. Rather than attempting to get 0 oxygen he suggests know Howe much your yeast needs and never give it more than it needs. So that it will all be scrubbed out. To this end they use filtered air. David, thanks for researching the topic. The paper by the German Brewing group has been superseded; the dose there is too high.
Homebrewers that have used the process for a while are using around 0. Bryan from the LO website has been brewing with no chemicals as of recently. I have had no gravity hit in more than 50 batches.
For instance…. Preboil, be careful, switch to stainless for the chiller, leave out the sodium metabisulfite, etc…. HSA exists, it would be impossible for it not to. It is a fact that when grains oxidize they release polyphenols which causes unwanted flavors in beer. Hi, guys! Its a thing now.
I read that Medical marijuana is a very old medicinal herb that has been used for thousands of years to treat a great variety of ailments. Cannabinoids, have been shown to have anti-bacterial, anti-cancer, anti-inflammatory and anxiety reducing properties that have helped a great deal in several illnesses. I wonder if someone can teach me how to create an infused cannabis beer. I highly appreciated all your help.
Great experiment! Cold side oxidation is definitely the bigger enemy, and can take a beer from being great to terrible. Not discounting the impact of LODO on hotside, just saying its not as important to focus on for most brewers.
Seems to me you can still make great beers with some hot side oxidation, but maybe just not as great or just different than the ones with LODO measures taken.
Perhaps its more important for some styles and ingredients than others. Think it would make sense to collaborate with seasoned LODO brewer on the next one of these experiments. The LODO process seems like it would take practice and dialing the equipment to nail down. If this is your first attempt its probably not a great data point. But it is an amazing conversation starter and made people aware of the process!
Than I asked Rabe from Lowoxygenbrewing. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed. OG Est. FG ABV 5. Share this: Twitter Facebook. Like this: Like Loading One of the most informative Exbeeriments in a while. To my eyes the LODO beer looks cloudier — perhaps because it was chilled more slowly? I believe the haze is related to sulfites damaging yeast and making them less flocculent Loading Can you fill me in on that process?
I use sorbate and SMB to kill off yeast in cider making too. I find that to be surprising. The articles below will show you how, but basically, you want to boil off as much oxygen as possible from the strike water prior to dough-in, and avoid splashing. These little guys provide active protection against DO, but should not be solely relied upon to meet LODO requirements.
When boiling the wort, keep it at a nice simmer. Vigorously boiling causes heat stress, accelerating oxidation and dulling the beer. This one is easy to overlook: chilling the wort. I personally use an immersion chiller and typically get a nice whirlpool going.
Pitch the yeast first, then immediately aerate the wort with pure O2 from an oxygenation kit. The yeast will consume the oxygen and begin working their magic.
Some are saying that LODO is the most exciting and intriguing brewing process experiment in recent years. There is still a lot of research and experimentation to be done, but results thus far have shown to be very positive. You could be the one to provide groundbreaking evidence on the effects of a brand new brewing technique that will propel our homebrew to new heights for generations to come!
One of the original LODO paper authors hinted at the idea of using an ultrasound device in the mash and boil to knock out dissolved gasses. The possibilities are endless! Disclaimer: Let me first say that I am in no way contributing to the LODO community here other than simply getting the word out to an awesome group of brewers. Sounds kinda crazy, right? Many brewers now skip the secondary fermentation entirely and bottle directly from their primary fermenter.
Commercial brewers make use of conical fermenters, which let them remove excess yeast and sediment without transferring their beer. Another important point is to use proper oxygen barrier containers if you are fermenting or storing your beer for any significant length of time. Glass and metal are good oxygen barriers, so use a glass or stainless fermenter if you plan to store your beer for an extended period.
Plastics are all air-permeable to some degree, so they should not be used for extended storage i. Splashing during transfer and bottling is a large source of oxygen. Auto-siphon devices with a poor seal also often will pull oxygen in through the seal when siphoning. This can be seen as bubbles near the seal when siphoning. If you have a leaky auto siphon you should discard it or add sterile water above the seal so it pulls water and not air if needed.
When kegging you need to minimize splashing and do a good purge with CO2 after filling the keg. You can do this by standing the keg upright and simply releasing the pressure relief valve several times while the gas is turned on.
The heavier CO2 will displace the oxygen in the keg, protecting your beer. For bottling, you should try to keep your headspace to a minimum generally an inch or so is sufficient , avoid splashing your beer when filling and use oxygen absorbing bottle caps if you have access to them.
Also be sure to carefully adjust and check your bottle capper on some bottles as even a small leak will leave your beer undercarbonated and also stale. Hopefully these simple tips will help you to be more aware of oxygen and some of the ways you can minimize oxygen in your finished beer. Be sure to sign up for my newsletter or my podcast also on itunes …and youtube …and streaming radio station for more great tips on homebrewing.
Also check out the How to Brew Video series I shot with John Palmer if you want to learn more about all grain brewing. Tagged as: Beer , Homebrewing , brew , brewing , chill haze , clarity , homebrew , oxidation , oxygen. If you have access own a Soda Stream carbonator, OR if you have regular CO2 cylinder system with dual gauges make use of it.
I have purged the air out of the receiving vessel before filling with beer with the Soda Stream and with the CO2 keg system.
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